Google SpamAs commented in the uswitch post, moneysupermarket have been dropped by Google for the term [car insurance]. Have Google finally realised that moneysupermarket are spamming the index and manipulating the results? Moneysupermarket (also seen as insuresupermarket) have occupied a top ten spot for the coveted term for as long as I can remember. One of our diligent readers (thanks Creased) noticed the change in results and let us know.

I’ve got a feeling some heads will roll over this. We’ll post back updates as soon as we find out more…

Update #7 23rd May: 16:00: They’re Back!
Moneysupermarket are back appearing at #1 spot for [car insurance].

Update #6 23rd May 11:50: The UK Press has Picked this up:
The Daily MailSEOChatmortgagestrategysearchenginewatchmarketingchat,
evilgreenmonkey and ioun

Update #5 16th May 16:20: Moneysupermarket Look for a New SEO Team:
Moneysupermarket are looking for an SEO Analyst and a Link Builder!

 Principal Responsibilities Include: Approaching third party websites and obtaining links

Update #4 16th May 10:30: Traffic Levels are Hit Hard:
Alexa traffic stats for MoneySupermarket 20070516Alexa is already reporting traffic levels are way down. Alexa stats are normally rubbish but this gives us a fairly good idea of a trend. Now that MS have removed their ‘links’ are we going to see Google remove the penalty? We’ll keep an eye on those graphs.

Update #3 14th May 14:30: The Debate Is On:
Discussion over at SEOChat.

Update #2 14th May 13:20: 40% of Traffic is from Natural Search:

Moneysupermarket organic paid splitThis statement from Hitwise suggests that organic traffic is at 40% versus 60% for paid.
Almost 10% of traffic is down to the [car insurance] key term.  I would like to be a fly on the wall of the MoneySupermarket offices today!

Update #1 14th May 11:10: An Official Response from MSM:
(or is that an unintentional, unofficial response)

 Wouldn’t banners on university sites just be classed as branding rather than SEO.

Related posts
GoCompare number 1 in Google
GoCompare Banned
Confused Banned


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89 Comments so far

  1. Ernest on May 13, 2007 5:48 pm

    Glad to see some eagle eyed people out there. Great stuff. Comin’ now, ‘fuss up …who has filed a spam report on Money Supermarket in the past??!!

  2. George on May 13, 2007 5:59 pm

    They are appearing in position 42 at my DC for [car insurance].

  3. Creased on May 14, 2007 10:01 am

    Indeed heads will roll. Moneysupermarket seemed to use alot of HTML based banners - which I actually thought was quite clever advertising and SEO in one hit. What are your opinions on this?

  4. Dan on May 14, 2007 10:34 am

    It looks to me like those banners in conjunction with the volume of them across university sites may be the problem. They have dropped out for most of the terms in the banner, however there are some insurance terms not in the banners that they still hold number 1 position for.

  5. Ernest on May 14, 2007 10:39 am

    Incidentally, do you think Money Supermarket could re-build their entire inbound link equity as a result of so many people talking about them being dropped (and linking to them) in blogs on this topic??!! That would be annoying, wouldn’t it!

    Creased, you’re on the brink of opening up the same can of worms which Matt Cutts opened a few weeks ago when he spoke about the ‘paidlink’ reporting.

    It must be difficult for Google to distinguish with - black and white rules - between what is or isn’t “intended” link spamming. It has been fairly obvious to the rest of us what MS have been doing but to put that into a rule will be tough.

  6. Psyfer on May 14, 2007 11:10 am

    Wouldn’t banners on university sites just be classed as branding rather than SEO.

    If you links are not relevant or the on page text of the pages carrying the adverts is irrelevant then why would Google kick them out, its just links at the end of the day, not much use for SEO so the links would be discounted anyway wouldn’t they?

  7. George on May 14, 2007 11:25 am

    @Psyfer
    There is no way that you can spin this as ethical advertising! Paid links (bought by moneysupermarket) are clearly being used to cheat Google. Buying these links (or bribing Uni students) doesn’t mean that because you have the money, you should appear top!

    P.S. You should have a disclaimer saying that you work for MoneySupermarket as that’s what your IP Address resloves to!!

  8. Psyfer on May 14, 2007 11:41 am

    I don’t do SEO George, apologies I was asking a serious question, I was just interested…

  9. Creased on May 14, 2007 12:12 pm

    This is a tough one. I never thought that their banners were a problem - and in terms of the sites functionality, I beleieved it to be a good entry at #1 for most insurance terms; after all they did feature most products and insurers. I’d rather they be #1 than a niche product provider like Saga or Diamond.

    I don’t support anything they have done should it be ‘Black’ or ‘Dark-Grey Hat’, but it definately feels like the lines are blurred if that is what they have been penalised for.

  10. Ernest on May 14, 2007 12:43 pm

    @Creased

    This is where we will probably disagree. You say that you’d rather MS were #1 than a niche provider such as Diamond or Saga. I can see your point but I’m much happier knowing that those who appear at the top for a certain term have done so by ethical means.

    We all know that it involves a lot of time and resource investment to achieve top ranking for the most popular insurance terms. We also know that a niche provider will convert less of this traffic due to their underwriting rules. Therefore, simple economic forces should give a natural and happy medium for customers and SEO’ers.

  11. Creased on May 14, 2007 1:32 pm

    I see your point Ernest - and i agree; i’d love to be a fly on the wall at the offices today.

    I was just saying that its a shame that a site that (in my opinion) probably should be #1 naturally had to use potentially underhanded methods.

    What do we all predict will happen next?

  12. Rich on May 14, 2007 2:50 pm

    Looks like all of the ads have been taken down!

  13. Ernest on May 14, 2007 3:12 pm

    @Creased

    I’m not sure I’d agree they “should” be #1. But that goes into other debates about ethics, business models, general behaviour and so on.

    As for future predictions…I’m sure they’ll come back up the listings but not necessarily as high up. Google will find them a natural listing in a few days - making this look like a severe slap on the wrist.

    By the way MS, it has not escaped the attention of most that you’re suddenly being very nice. It makes people nervous! Go back to being a bully. At least everyone knew where they stood then!!

  14. Creased on May 14, 2007 4:01 pm

    Is anyone seeing more changes? I’m seeing Admiral at #2 on one DC, but not the other?

  15. Ernest on May 14, 2007 4:13 pm

    @Creased

    Looks like a simple update to me. I’ve got them at #2 on one DC and #6 on most of the others. Depends which DC tool you’re using and which way the trend is heading.

    Which of the DC checking tools are you using?

  16. Creased on May 14, 2007 4:22 pm

    Mcdar - i’m not a big fan of it. Admiral & Virgin seem to be absent of a couple of the DCs.

  17. Ernest on May 14, 2007 4:34 pm

    You tend to get a huge US slant on the McDar tool. That’ll obvious skew things. I woulnd’t be surprised if it’s just an update working its way through the DCs. Give us a shout if the trend is ‘drop’ rather than ‘pick up’.

  18. Ernest on May 14, 2007 4:35 pm

    So, having commented a fair bit on the MS situation (and following Rich’s post) …what do you think MS should be doing now? Or what can you see them doing?

  19. Jones on May 14, 2007 11:11 pm

    Not sure I agree with the any of the discussion surrounding the advertising on MoneySupermarket’s site being the casue of the penalisation.

    Back-links, bought ones, and lots of them - that’s the cause. MoneySupermarket are the biggest name in the UK’s online financial sector and Google have picked them out because they know it will trigger this exact discussion, hoping that many SEOs will now be saying ‘link buying’s dead’, but I don’t know any that are, or will ever be, until the random penalisations stop, and an algorithm change puts a stop to it all (which I don’t think will happen any time soon).

    My thoughts on MoneySupermarket, ASDA finance and Ocean Finance, the big three sites to be punished over the past few months can be read here:

    http://www.groupmind.co.uk/asda-ocean-finance-and-now-moneysupermarket-google-gets-tough-on-the-big-link-buyers/

  20. Ernest on May 15, 2007 10:42 am

    @Jones

    Great piece on the MS and OF situation. I share many of your views but…

    …the debate on this post about the advertising which MoneySupermarket has been running (I agree - its not the sole reason they’ve been penalised). However, the reason it is interesting is that it fits into that grey area between link buying and advertising. Perhaps the human eye is better at spotting these. Maybe Google will be putting more emphasis on page theme of the linking page. All speculation and none of us know.

    I’d be looking more towards the ‘help’ they give to university students in exchange for back links. What say you?

    I think you’re spot on in that this is being used as a warning to the market - perhaps ASDA and 17to40 weren’t big enough SEO entities so they had to go after the establishment! Still, good to shake things up a bit and, at the end of the day, MS can’t say that what they were doing fits within Google’s guidelines.

  21. Kevin on May 15, 2007 10:56 am

    Have Google issued any advice on how they wish everyone to proceed or even advised the market as to how they wish to see things change?

    Jones mentions in his article that Confused should be worried, but shouldn’t they be made aware of what exactly they should be worried about in the first place. There appears to be a lot of speculation that unethical link buying is the cause (which makes sense), but it would be helpful to have this confirmed so that everyone can correct their SEO strategies accordingly.

  22. Rich on May 15, 2007 11:08 am

    Kevin

    I think Jones probably says Confused should be worried on the basis of some of their backlinks. They seem to have purchased run of site links from unrelated sites which look exactly like the type of links Matt Cutts is asking for feedback on, he updated his link buying post a couple of days back and gave examples of the type of link buying they want feedback on.

    I don’t think google need to come out and clarify, their position is clear. Eveybody in the top 10 has acquired links to some degree, if they don’t they won’t rank, but some have been going over the top and trying to force the issue, got greedy, trying to keep up, call it what you want.

    I’m actually surprised Confused have bought that type of link, maybe they were getting fed up with MS getting away with it??

    I know the focus of this discussion and site is Insurance, but I actually think the other financial sectors are being spammed more at the moment, especially, loans, mortgages & credit cards.

    Some very heavy link buying in these sectors and also co-op link network participation.

    I would think Ocean finance are the tip of the iceberg in that sector.

  23. Ernest on May 15, 2007 11:09 am

    @Kevin

    Read the Google guidelines. Any link ‘buying’ is unethical according to the Big G. That’s why I raised an eyebrow that you were dabbling with this.

    Google prefers to see the natural accumulation of links. Therefore, you should look to grow steadily and not too quickly, keep as many links as possible in line with text, create content which people want to link to without being paid …keep pushing your PR! If the Big G sees this, it will see you as an authority in the sector and your links will carry some good weight even if you don’t have 100 billion trillion million of them.

  24. Rich on May 15, 2007 11:13 am

    Kevin

    For clarity, this is an example of bad linking buying on Confused’s part - http://www.consumerismcommentary.com/category/adsense/

    Bottom left, 1 of loads of links under the heading “Site Sponsors”.

    Just my opinion, I don’t think a site of that stature needs to do that.

  25. Ernest on May 15, 2007 11:16 am

    @Rich

    Fret not about heading off sector. We can all learn from things outside of our wonderful world of insurance!! I think you’re right. This is could be the tip of the iceberg. Maybe Google is using MS and OF as visible domains to put people off and invoke this sort of debate (as Jones suggested). Maybe they’re trialling methods. Either way, the Big G isn’t happy.

    Could it be that competiting on one of the most competitive SEO terms in the world [car insurance] and having to use non-ethical techniques is simply not worth it? Could it possibly be that the conversion rates (remember this is about revenue not egos) of the slightly widers terms is better, more cost effective and achieveable without breaking the Big G’s guidelines?

  26. Andy on May 15, 2007 3:28 pm

    Interesting that USwitch are using the same tactics as moneysupermarket i.e. a banner placement on student sites e.g. www.bamstudent.com.

  27. M A L on May 16, 2007 1:47 pm

    Wait a second.

    Let me get this right. If I want to compete with a website high in the insurance market all I have to do is buy that site a few hundred links on some student sites?

    What a fantastic weapon!

    Sorry, I don’t beleive it nobody can control who links to them…

  28. Ernest on May 16, 2007 3:54 pm

    @M A L

    If they’re supplying the hosting they can set the condition. If the site doesn’t accept the condition, their free/discounted hosting is revoke. So, yes, they could control the links. It’s just a different sort of payment. Of course, that is in addition to any other paid link activity which is open to everyone.

    Also, nobody is saying that this is the sole reason for their success. They have a number of strong on-page elements, coupled with some strong authority links coming from their partnership pages e.g. newspaper and money sites.

    What say you? Got a vested interest?!

  29. M A L on May 17, 2007 9:15 am

    @Ernest

    I’m confused. What I’m saying is lets say moneysupermarket sort their mess out. They’re back number one in the serps etc.

    Well if I don’t want them there and I want them out of the index again all I’ve got to do is buy a load of links on the same student sites and poof, they’re gone.

    I’m liking this more and more, thanks google.

  30. Ernest on May 17, 2007 11:18 am

    @M A L

    I see what you’re saying. Absolutely. This is a dangerous area. I think it was one of the most common points to be raised in the responses to Matt Cutts’ “paidlink” reporting post.

    I don’t know how Google will be able to distinguish this sort of malicious activity, although some claim to be able to spot pattern and that this is what they’ll look for. I guess the “padilink” use of the spam reporting tool lets them feel around for ideas and see how people report these links.

    I’ve heard a weak argument which suggests that the cost of buying links will deter competitors from doing this and that it’ll have an oligopoly effect - you’ll have to do it because everyone else is - cancelling all of the activity out. Bit far fetch and complete rubbish if you ask me!

    Any ideas on how the Big G will work through this?

  31. George on May 17, 2007 11:33 am

    Do any of our readers have a Hitwise account? It would be good to see how the traffic volumes have been hit.

  32. Tron on May 18, 2007 12:24 pm

    @George

    Hitwise have not updated their figures yet. Will check back on Monday.

  33. Dan on May 18, 2007 12:35 pm

    With regards to buying links to get other sites penalised (or Google bowling). I don’t believe this is possible anymore, all that has happened to Moneysupermarket is a devaluation of a large portion of their paid links.

  34. Ernest on May 18, 2007 6:06 pm

    Cheers Tron. Good to see a new name on the posts. Been lurking for a while??!! Let us know when you get the Hitwise stats. Did you fill in a MS spam report or two or your own?

  35. Jones on May 19, 2007 11:25 pm

    @MAL, Dan

    If Google roll out an algorithm that penalising link buying, Google bowling could become the next big SEO tool and I know I would have a queue of people lining up to use it, whatever the cost.

    Hopefully this won’t become reality.

    However, instead of penalising link buyers, the algorithm would more likely penalise link sellers, preventing them passing PageRank to other sites. This is the likely avenue Google will take, but it will only serve to make link buyers smarter. Already I’m seeing the sites using the words ‘Sponsored’ and ‘Advertising’ etc. (the words Google’s algorithm will be using to determine which links are paid-for) above their sold links struggling to attract the same kind of attention they once did, proving that the link market is starting to become a little worried about possible algorithm change.

    Personally, I don’t see the major link brokers like Text Link Ads or LiveCustomer lasting much longer if they continue down the same path. They’ve tried to branch out and get a little smarter, but not to the same extent as new link brokers like LinkXL, which I believe are about to become a major thorn in Google’s side.

  36. Don’t Leave Footprints In The Sand on May 20, 2007 12:26 am

    […] filters and the UK comparison site Money Supermarket valued at around $2 billion is also thought to have been hit. When approaching link development, follow Jim Boykin’s lead and try to get links within […]

  37. Rich on May 21, 2007 9:21 am

    I see moneyexpert.com are starting to climb for “car insurance”, following on from their high rankings for loans, credit cards & mortgages.

    How are they doing it? Digital point link network.

  38. Tron on May 21, 2007 5:35 pm

    @Ernest - thanks for the welcome. Hitwise has now updated.

    There has been a fairly obvious fall, but perhaps not as significant as you might have expected. Sorry that I can’t post graphs, but license does not permit.

    No, not been doing any of the reporting - in fact I would suggest that MS are perhaps one of the companies that deserves to rank prominently. I think from a user point of view they provide a fairly decent service. Their use of sponsored links is only in place to contend with link farmers.

    @Rich - I had noticed Money Expert creeping up, but again a quick “link:[URL]” search shows that they have a fair few sponsored links pointed their way as does just about every page one listing.

  39. Creased on May 21, 2007 6:19 pm

    @Tron

    If you look at previous comments; I made the same point about MS being a good service - and deserving the #1 spot for many terms. On a recent journey through the site, pop-ups were shooting up all over the place. In fact during a quote for Travel Insurance a pop-up shoved Norwich Union in my face for the same product in-between every page!

    The site has far too many ads in my opinion - www.gocompare.com and www.confused.com don’t go down the same route - thankfully!

  40. Ernest on May 21, 2007 10:26 pm

    @Rich, funny you noticed moneyexpert.com. I came back onto the blog to post a comment about them having spotted a link ring which they appear to crop up in. They also appear with moneyweb.co.uk but I haven’t had any time to look into their situation.

    @Creased, you’re coming around to our way of thinking!!

    @Tron, there are many reasons why they don’t ‘deserve’ to be number one. They don’t supply the best service to the customer or the insurance market and work towards the short term goal of floating. Everything about them is designed to make people click. Customers end up buying a policy based on a high excess, false information and/or a stripped out policy. Plenty to cover in a single post.

    @Google: chooseinsurance, endsleigh (and their many affiliated sites) and moneyexpert need the same treatment!! Optimistic but worth a shot ;)

  41. Tron on May 22, 2007 10:33 am

    @Creased - In my opinion, there is no excuse for pop-ups. I am amazed that a/ any real consumer focussed website would want to serve them and b/ any bona fide advertiser would want to buy them. I am sure the lesson will be learned one day though.

    The only exception I would suggest would be the occasional rich media Tangozebra / Eyeblaster type creative, which should be carefully capped.

    @Ernest - sure, number one maybe not, but prominent. Although the following investigation might not agree. Sorry, it is not really insurance specific, more comparison orientated… http://tinyurl.com/2qrfcg

    I would welcome a return to a more content focussed indexing with less reliance on what external sites are doing. This would then encourage websites to investigate ways in which to deliver more accessibility and consumer focussed initiatives. Ironically this is what Google say is at the core of the algorithm already.

    Not sure if you guys have seen the following… http://tinyurl.com/345gy5

  42. Ernest on May 23, 2007 12:20 pm

    @Tron

    A balanced view as ever. Indeed, there should really only be two camps:
    a) content is king
    b) customer is king

    …which when it comes down to it, they’re exactly the same thing!!

    I suppose you’re suggesting that the power is currently sitting with the webmasters and not customers - customers aren’t yet placing enough links to the best service. The link generation and power comes from having journalists and webmasters in your pocket working alongside a well oiled PR machine.

  43. Creased on May 23, 2007 12:27 pm

    It seems like the story is certainly doing the rounds! Does anyone believe that this is a ‘temporary glitch’ on Google’s part - as MS suggest in the thisismoney.co.uk report?

  44. Ernest on May 23, 2007 12:45 pm

    It seems as though most of the people writing about the MS situation have absolutely no idea about SEO.

    One guys is writing about the forums discussing invisible links. If he checked the date of those posts, they’d see that they date back to 2005.

    Ah, to think MS claim not to use any black hat techniques when it actually goes back to years of trying lots of dodgey practices.

    @Creased - I’m sure they’ll come back in a few weeks. They’ll work around it, push their budget into different areas, concentrate on bringing themselves closer to the grey line, pay their bung to the Big G. Whatever it takes.

  45. George on May 23, 2007 4:10 pm

    Does anyone think this was a “temporary glitch”. Either way, they’re back at number 1 across all the DCs I have checked.

    Perhaps someone delivered a brown paper bag filled with cash to Google!

  46. M A L on May 23, 2007 4:10 pm
  47. Creased on May 23, 2007 4:39 pm

    Thats a shame. Does this mean they didn’t do any wrong? or what they did do isn’t as black as we’d hoped?

  48. Tron on May 23, 2007 4:43 pm

    So, MS are back. Everywhere you look. Amazingly they have even acquired improved positions.

    I stand by my original statements and maintain they deserve prominent positions, but something seems a little odd here.

    To hit top spot on so many terms where previously not even on page 1 is a little suspect. None of the pages have even been crawled since 20/05 the day on which they took the hit.

    I could understand it if it was the odd phrase here and there, but such a clean sweep, in the space of an hour or so - go figure.

  49. M A L on May 23, 2007 5:01 pm

    It seems Latitude don’t like being in the spotlight. They’ve removed the content, LOL.

    It is detailed many times on their website…

    http://www.searchlatitude.com/index.php?/weblog/authors/fc0f66819bd0e6afc21539ad3f97ad6e/

  50. George on May 23, 2007 5:23 pm

    @M A L
    This should help:
    http://www.searchlatitude.com/index.php?/search/results/74ed27d7ece8167d35369ac9f992d11a/

    @Tron, Creased,
    They started removing many of their banners soon after they were dropped. But, to turn it around to quickly, something seems a little fishy…

  51. Jones on May 24, 2007 9:08 am

    It’s worth pointing out that Latitude don’t do Ocean’s SEO anymore, that’s probably why the content was removed.

    Ocean Finance have gone with another ‘leading’ SEO company, and subsequently were banned by Google even for their domain name.

    This has now been reversed but they still don’t rank well for anything.

  52. M A L on May 24, 2007 9:17 am

    @Jones

    Seem latitude aren’t being entirely honest with anyone…

    http://forums.seochat.com/google-optimization-7/why-did-this-site-get-banned-132038-4.html#post455462

  53. M A L on May 24, 2007 9:20 am

    Jones,

    Seems Latitude are heavily involved in the dp ad network.

    Check the end of this thread

    http://forums.seochat.com/google-optimization-7/why-did-this-site-get-banned-132038-4.html

  54. M A L on May 24, 2007 9:22 am

    I’m not seeing MS on some DC’s again…

  55. M A L on May 24, 2007 9:28 am

    @Jones

    Call me cynical, but is your first name Kevin?

    Do you work for latitude? I’ve been contacted by a “Kevin Jones” from latitude over five of my largest websites trying to buy ad space for the digital point ad network.

    Plus Ocean are mentioned all over the latitude website as being a client?

    So my questions are.

    1) Are you Kevin Jones from latitude?

    2) Why are the so called ethical seo company latitude buying into ad networks?

  56. Jones on May 24, 2007 10:24 am

    All getting very personal isn’t it…

  57. Jones on May 24, 2007 10:25 am

    Were MoneySupermarket’s ads always served up by DoubleClick (recent Google acquisition) ?

  58. Tron on May 24, 2007 10:27 am

    @Mal - I think one of the benefits of a forum such as this is anonymity. We work in a very incestuous business, and anonymity allows people to be open and honest.

    It is up to moderators if they wish to divulge IP locations in the event of a person posting extreme bias and or indeed touting for business.

    I think the danger otherwise is that we find ourselves in a witch hunt type scenario, and all descends into mud-slinging and bitching. Having siad that, a sniping war could be entertaining or amusing… Perhaps should be on a different thread though?

  59. M A L on May 24, 2007 10:37 am

    Tron,

    I have no intention of being malicious or personal.

    Just fair.

    It is unfair however for an individual or group of people to slate clearly their competitors for their so called underhand techniques on one hand while on the other hand buying in those very same links or using those very same tactics.

    Perhaps, the lesson to be learnt here is that people in glass houses should not throw stones? I’m sure those same people would not like this posted anywhere else than among their peers here.

    (ps: I never expected a reply to the questions; in fact it is the silence to them which is deafening)

  60. Tron on May 24, 2007 10:59 am

    @Mal - fair enough, I wasn’t trying to have a dig, just sharing my thoughts.

    Anyhow, shall we try to get back on track?

    - Money Supermarket have hit number one spot simultaneously on a series of high profile and very high demand key phrases.

    - Prior to hitting these spots they previously were no where to be seen on any of these key phrases.

    - Some of these new position one rankings are completely new to MS.

    - Looking at the cached versions of the various pages suggests that Google have not crawled for several days despite an obvious re-index.

    So, what is going on? Have Google cowed to MS’s PPC spending power? Kudos to MS for pulling it off if this is the case.

    To be fair though, talking about it on here is all very well and good, but how do we address this situation with Google?

  61. Andy on May 24, 2007 11:39 am

    @Tron

    Can you give some specific examples of the new top positions MS have gained?

  62. Tron on May 24, 2007 11:47 am

    @Andy

    They have not been at top spot on either Mortgage or Mortgages for some time now, nor indeed Credit Card. I am afraid that I am working from memory here, so those are the only ones that I am certain about and sorry they are not really insurance related.

  63. z on May 24, 2007 12:28 pm

    Pretty impressive for MS to jump back so quickly. I am interested to know if anyone ( concentration being on google) knows or remembers if they ranked anywhere in yahoo before. After checking around a bit ( please correct me if I’m wrong) they don’t seem to be in Yahoo! anymore ( or were they never there?)

  64. Jones on May 24, 2007 12:44 pm

    MoneySupermarket are Google UK #1 for:

    loans
    mortgages
    car insurance

    These three are some of the highest volume, valuable and competitive keywords there is.

    @Tron
    Very interesting that the pages haven’t been reindexed, so only a late-night meeting in a lonely undeground car park and a brown envelope could have sorted this out… ;)

    Google are just messing with us, the powerful devils that they are.

  65. Jones on May 24, 2007 12:47 pm

    MoneySupermarket are Google UK #1 for:

    mortgages
    loans
    car insurance

    They should see a trickle of traffic for these terms if they’re lucky.

  66. Jon on May 24, 2007 1:36 pm

    @mal

    I think you know who really does oceans SEO at the moment, and I would be suprised If you are not associated from your reaction and finger pointing.

    So far no one has named which agency does Oceans seo at the moment, and I think it would be much better for all if no one did.

  67. Ernest on May 24, 2007 1:48 pm

    @ALL

    Good to see some discussions develop.

    Happy for people to digg around if they want to work out who each other is working for and it’s obviously up to the individual to divulge that information - but let’s keep it constructive.

    ….ding, ding …game on!

  68. Ernest on May 24, 2007 1:56 pm

    @ALL

    Lots of talk about which SEO company is working for which brand and how much paid link activity they’re undertaking.

    But, is it not more worthwhile to take Google’s (documented) approach and highlight the linking rings and networks of sites. That way, you can not only trace the main offenders who are paying, but also those who are hosting. Makes no difference to me which SEO company is advising clients to buy links - it ain’t mine and I ain’t doing it!!!

  69. M A L on May 24, 2007 2:33 pm

    Hi Jon,

    Welcome to insiders-view.

    // So far no one has named which agency does Oceans seo at the moment, and I think it would be much better for all if no one did.//

    I don’t do Ocean I’m one of their competitors.

    //..trace the main offenders who are paying…//

    Yes I agree. And I pointed it out. Latitude are buying into an ad network. So, I’ve traced one for you.

    Which is fine, they are entitled to do as they wish.

    However when they bash people with the ethical stick in one hand they need to ensure they are not being unethical with the other.

    It’s called being hypocritical.

  70. Jones on May 24, 2007 2:54 pm

    why?

  71. Jon on May 24, 2007 3:03 pm

    but to theorize, reasearch, play is wahtwe all do.

    Any company that gets a site banned without warning there customers of the risk involved need is open for public criticism, but we dont know what converstaions going on behind close doors.

    Did the company who did oceans seo warn ocean of the risk with automated link networks? did coean know of the risk involved? We dont know if they were igmnorant the company is liable to critisim ( if not lawsuit ).

    If the company is up front about risks with the cliebnt and they want to proceed, everyoen in this game balances risk vrs reward. Especially in the financial sector.

  72. M A L on May 24, 2007 3:06 pm

    Why Kevin?

    Are you joking? You are going around telling people how unethical their seo is on their sites.

    You are doing this while simultaneously buying in links for an adnetwork that by your own admission will get people banned.

    Sorry are you saying you are not attempting to buy links for an ad network? I have the emails with full headers…

    That my friend is hypocritical.
    You can’t be the cop and the robber mate.

  73. Tron on May 24, 2007 3:54 pm

    @M A L
    //You can’t be the cop and the robber mate.//

    Did you never see LA Confidential?

    @Ernest
    //Happy for people to digg around if they want to work out who each other is working for//

    I bet that is a lot more fun when you can follow IP addresses!

    @All - has anyone used the sponsored link reporting facility. Do you think this is what triggered the shift at the top, irrespective of MS bouncing back with improved rankings?

  74. z on May 24, 2007 4:36 pm

    I know Yahoo! is a small engine, but them not appearing in there at all must show that they are doing something wrong? or are we ignoring Yahoo! on the whole now?

  75. Tron on May 24, 2007 4:53 pm

    @Z

    Last month Google generated about 30% of all their traffic, compared to less than 2% from Yahoo. I don’t know how they previously ranked though.

  76. Ernest on May 24, 2007 5:34 pm

    @Tron

    //I bet that is a lot more fun when you can follow IP addresses!//

    Being the honest chap I am …we can indeed see some IP addresses for posters. Sometimes the whois info doesn’t lead us to anywhere useful and if people are really that bothered they can post from home, on their mobile or through a proxy. Makes no odds to us. As long as there’s discussion and points of view, there’s room for you all here!!

    Also, even when the IP gives a company name, it doesn’t necessarily mean they agree with the actions of that company. That’s why the posts are more important than the name supplying the salary cheque.

  77. George on May 25, 2007 1:39 pm

    Following an email conversation with one of the commenters, we use Akismet on this blog. This means that in some rare cases, comments will be labelled as spam. If this happens, they may fail to appear or may experience a delay before showing up.

    Insiders View does not ’screen’ comments on this blog…at this time….

  78. Marcus on May 27, 2007 12:45 pm

    looks like confused.com have been dropped for the term [car insurance] maybe Google have their next victim. What do we make of the activities of confused.com?

  79. Ben on May 27, 2007 1:57 pm

    It looks like a different situation to Moneysupermarket, the cache seems to be missing, could be some kind of glitch.

  80. Ernest on May 27, 2007 5:39 pm

    I can hear the russtling of a brown paper bag being prepared as I type!!

    The conspiracy theorist in me is whispering a counter complaint from MS!! Realistically, nearly everyone there or there abouts for [car insurance] is very close/breaking the Big G’s guidelines to some extent so it shouldn’t be a surprise if any of them drop.

    However, if Google applied the same rule across the board, they wouldn’t be delivering the brands which customers want to see. Maybe they’re doing this to test people’s reactions - hoping to shock them to taking the white road.

    …don’t think it’ll work in an oligopoly market such as insurance.

  81. Rich on May 27, 2007 6:45 pm

    My money is on it being a glitch, i’d expect to see it back within days, if not hours.

  82. Knatt on May 27, 2007 6:48 pm

    One wonders how much of an impact a few days of de-listing and a slap on the wrist will have on a giant such as MSM. I can’t understand why the FSA didn’t whip their arses long ago; most of the top insurance quotes returned don’t match user specification amd people are not being insured properly as a result. This worries me far more than black-hat SEO!

  83. Rich on May 29, 2007 9:44 am

    Just to chip in again on confused - noticed that they have acquired confused.co.uk (wonder what they had to pay for that?), anyway it’s a replica of confused.com - so might be some sort of duplicate content issue, either way I think they’ll get it sorted…

  84. Ernest on May 29, 2007 10:35 am

    It would be good if someone from confused came on here to comment!

  85. Kevin on May 30, 2007 11:31 am

    @Ernest

    Having previously been part of Confused.com from it’s lauch to very recently, I’d frankly be amazed if they’d noticed that they’d been dropped from Google until the following day and even more amazed if they’d ever read I-V.

    Also, confused.co.uk was acquired last year for nowhere nearly as much as people might think.

  86. Kevin on May 30, 2007 11:53 am

    The reason I doubt if they’d notice, is more to the fact that in terms of their quote numbers, the majority come from natural searches for the Confused.com brand and not through random searches.

    The marketing team at Confused, while being extremely effective, have rarely needed to be heavily hands on with Google. I’d guess that this contrasts hugely with say moneysupermarket and definetly Gocompare.com.

    This in part is due to the length of time that they have had high rankings on Google but mainly down to their reliance on their SEO company.

    A lot of companies rely heavily, maybe too heavily, on their SEO companies to get high Google rankings and don’t understand what is really involved in attaining those positions. I appreciate that naievity (sp?) is no excuse, but maybe Google’s first port of call to cleaning up the rankings should be to consult with the SEO agencies as to what will happen if optimisation methods aren’t corrected (this may already have been done).

  87. Ernest on June 11, 2007 2:20 pm

    Looks like Money Expert’s link buying exploits have earned them a strong listing on [car insurance] to go alongside their top positions on [loans] and [mortgages].

    I wonder whether Google will bother to clamp down on them? It’ll prove whether the Confused and MoneySupermarket issues were a warning or a sign of treatment which all link buyers should expect.

  88. Ben on July 4, 2007 6:38 pm

    Whilst doing some investigation it’s become evident that Money Supermarket are technically cloaking quite a few links to their top ranking pages.

    They have a large number of links from sites like the www.timesonline.co.uk. These appear to link through to the relevant Times Online branded page on www.moneysupermarket.com, however if the browser or spider does not accept cookies and cannot run JavaScript they are permanently redirected to the Moneysupermarket version of the relevant page complete with the moneysupermarket URL. (which is the one currently ranking in the search results.)

    So as an example this URL contains several links to MS.
    http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/money/insurance/

    The link with the text “Life Assurance” links through an intermediate script:
    http://www.moneysupermarket.com/link.asp?Section=term&Source=TIM

    This script accepts two parameters, the first appears to be the source of the referral in this case “TIM” (times online) the section parameter appears to be used to tell the script where to permantly redirect to on the MS site.

    This is the interesting part :) If like the majority of internet users you accept cookies and run JavaScript you’ll be 301 redirected to this URL:
    URL 1: http://www.moneysupermarket.com/Termassurancep/Default.asp

    If however your a search engine spider or user without cookies and JavaScript you’ll be permantly redirected to this URL:
    URL 2: http://www.moneysupermarket.com/termassurance/

    This of course means the cache of URL 1 actually shows the content of URL 2:

    http://209.85.135.104/search?sourceid=navclient-ff&ie=UTF-8&q=cache:http%3A%2F%2Fwww.moneysupermarket.com%2FTermassurancep%2FDefault.asp

    Forgive me if i’m wrong here but that’s cloaking for search engine benefit, and it’s not cloaking in order to keyword stuff the page it’s cloaking to gain links.

  89. George on January 29, 2008 5:53 pm
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